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Computing > Arch Arithmetic > Unusual Floatin...
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Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?

by "Quadibloc" <jsavard@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Mar 31, 2007 at 09:31 AM

Currently being voted on by the IEEE, an extension to the IEEE 754
floating-point standard will include the definition of a decimal
floating-point format.

This has some interesting features. Decimal digits are usually
compressed using the Densely Packed Decimal format developed by Mike
Cowlishaw at IBM on the basis of the earlier Chen-Ho encoding. The
three formats offered all have a number of decimal digits precision
that is 3n+1 for some n, so a five-bit field combines the one odd
digit with the most significant ****tion of the exponent (for a range
of exponents that has 3*2^n values for some integer n) to keep the
coding efficient. Its most unusual, and potentially controversial,
feature is the use it makes of unnormalized values.

One possible objection to a decimal floating-point format, if it were
used in general for all the purposes for which floating-point is used,
is that the precision of numbers in such a format can vary by a whole
decimal digit, which is more than three times as large as a binary
bit, the amount by which the precision varies in a binary format with
a radix-2 exponent. (There were binary formats with radix-16
exponents, on the IBM System/360 and the Telefunken TR 440, and these
were found objectionable, although the radix-8 exponents of the Atlas
and the Burroughs B5500 were found tolerable.)

I devised a scheme, described along with the proposed new formats, on

http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/cp020302.htm

by which a special four-bit field would describe both the most
significant digit of a decimal significand (or coefficient, or
fraction, or, horrors, mantissa) and a least significant digit which
would be restricted in the values which it could take.

MSD 1, appended LSD can be 0, 2, 4, 6, or 8.
MSD 2 or 3, appended LSD can be 0 or 5.
MSD 4 to 9, appended LSD is always 0.

In this way, the distance between representable values increases in
steps of factors of 2 or 2.5 instead of factors of 10, making decimal
floating-point as "nice" as binary floating-point.

As another bonus, when you compare the precision of the field to its
length in bits, you discover that I have managed to achieve the same
benefit for decimal floating point as was obtained for binary floating-
point by hiding the first bit of a normalized significand!

Well, I went on from there.

If one can, by this contrivance, make the exponent move in steps of
1/3rd of a digit instead of whole digits, why not try to make the
exponent move in steps of about 1/3 of a bit, or 1/10 of a digit?

And so, on the next page,

http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/cp020303.htm

I note that if instead of appending one digit restricted to being
either even or a multiple of five, I append values in a *six-digit*
field, I can let the distance between representable points increase by
gentle factors of 1.25 or 1.28.

But such a format is rather complicated. I go on to discuss using an
even smaller factor with ***agesimal floating point... in a format
more suited to an announcement *tomorrow*.

But I also mention how this scheme could be _simplified_ to a minimum.

Let's consider normalized binary floating points.

The first two bits of the significand (or mantissa) might be 10 or 11.

In the former case, let's append a fraction to the end of the
significand that might be 0, 1/3 or 2/3... except, so that we can stay
in binary, we'll go with either 5/16 or 11/16.

In the latter case, the choice is 0 or 1/2.

Then, the coding scheme effectively makes the precision of the number
move in small jumps, as if the exponent were in units of *half* a bit
instead of whole bits.

But now a nagging feeling haunts me.

This sounds vaguely familiar - as if, instead of *inventing* this
scheme, bizarre though it may sound to many, I just *remembered* it,
say from the pages of an old issue of Electronics or Electronics
Design magazine.

Does anyone here remember what I'm thinking of?

John Savard
 




 146 Posts in Topic:
Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-03-31 09:31:08 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Mike Cowlishaw"  2007-03-31 17:59:47 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-03-31 10:19:37 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-03-31 18:30:10 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Mike Cowlishaw"  2007-03-31 19:53:16 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-01 07:41:37 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-01 08:26:32 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Mike Cowlishaw"  2007-04-01 12:11:01 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-01 11:34:11 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Terje Mathisen <terje.  2007-04-01 17:08:40 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-01 16:38:14 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Terje Mathisen <terje.  2007-04-01 17:00:45 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-05 09:42:46 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-03-31 12:15:19 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-01 06:36:02 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Terje Mathisen <terje.  2007-04-01 17:24:21 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-01 11:41:43 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-01 16:46:48 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Andrew Reilly <andrew-  2007-04-02 10:24:22 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-01 20:55:53 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-02 09:56:31 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Terje Mathisen <terje.  2007-04-02 16:05:15 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-02 12:00:58 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-02 13:59:56 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-02 14:34:34 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-02 18:03:36 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-02 20:12:47 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-05 16:47:28 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-05 15:16:54 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-05 19:32:09 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-05 15:50:24 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-06 07:56:48 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-06 11:16:29 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-06 17:36:11 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-06 14:10:49 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-06 19:09:16 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-06 16:08:40 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
pa@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pi  2007-04-07 01:20:53 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-03 07:34:54 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-04 23:02:40 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Andrew Reilly <andrew-  2007-04-05 14:35:35 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-05 09:13:55 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Fred J. Tydeman&quo  2007-04-05 15:41:57 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
hrubin@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-04-06 13:38:38 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-06 14:04:47 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
hrubin@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-04-06 14:13:32 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-06 14:38:10 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"David N. Williams&q  2007-04-06 14:39:57 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-05 09:02:57 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-05 09:27:48 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-05 14:37:01 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-05 10:54:35 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-05 15:16:11 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-05 11:29:30 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-05 15:53:38 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-05 12:06:16 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-05 16:17:00 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-05 12:33:28 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-05 17:17:37 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-01 17:07:27 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-01 21:03:28 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-01 21:12:44 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-03 17:29:48 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-03 12:08:25 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-04 23:15:04 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-12 06:38:26 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-12 11:20:56 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-03 21:05:34 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-05 09:05:06 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-13 09:58:01 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-13 12:17:28 
FFT error analysis [was Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Rememb
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-13 14:33:11 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Steve Underwood <steve  2007-04-02 09:17:45 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-13 14:06:18 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-14 07:37:33 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Mike Cowlishaw"  2007-04-01 21:02:36 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-01 17:32:54 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-01 17:32:40 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Randy Yates <yates@[EM  2007-04-01 20:46:17 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-01 21:07:57 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-01 17:43:32 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"MooseFET" <  2007-04-02 06:55:49 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-02 12:14:15 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-02 13:55:56 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-02 20:16:40 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-02 17:29:03 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-02 21:02:20 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Steve Underwood <steve  2007-04-03 16:35:54 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-02 14:06:05 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"MooseFET" <  2007-04-02 18:45:53 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-02 20:38:45 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"MooseFET" <  2007-04-02 18:47:33 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"MooseFET" <  2007-04-03 07:03:09 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-03 09:59:05 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-05 06:46:52 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Charlie Gibbs"  2007-04-14 14:05:49 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-05 09:47:44 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-05 16:50:35 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Al Kossow <aek@[EMAIL   2007-04-05 18:35:17 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
wdonzelli@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2007-04-05 20:02:43 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-05 21:13:29 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
hrubin@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2007-04-06 13:59:33 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
nmm1@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2007-04-06 18:53:17 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-06 16:13:18 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-06 17:00:31 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-06 21:16:48 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-07 00:13:46 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-07 10:11:00 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
krw <krw@[EMAIL PROTEC  2007-04-07 21:17:22 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-07 21:30:23 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
krw <krw@[EMAIL PROTEC  2007-04-07 21:41:30 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-07 23:13:59 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-08 00:10:08 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
krw <krw@[EMAIL PROTEC  2007-04-08 12:37:36 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-07 16:47:48 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-07 21:32:56 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-08 02:12:00 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-08 02:36:29 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Anne & Lynn Wheeler &  2007-04-08 04:15:14 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-08 17:58:31 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"Quadibloc" <  2007-04-08 18:33:19 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-08 23:30:39 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
jmfbahciv@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2007-04-09 11:14:08 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-09 12:32:23 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
jmfbahciv@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2007-04-11 10:03:08 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-11 10:40:02 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
jmfbahciv@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2007-04-14 11:07:10 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"robertwessel2@[EMAI  2007-04-09 16:09:59 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"MooseFET" <  2007-04-12 07:27:57 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-13 02:07:41 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-13 08:12:34 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
jmfbahciv@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2007-04-13 11:40:50 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-13 10:12:12 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Terje Mathisen <terje.  2007-04-14 17:17:13 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Vladimir Vassilevsky <  2007-04-13 09:24:12 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-13 10:58:11 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Vladimir Vassilevsky <  2007-04-13 15:01:12 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-13 11:08:47 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Vladimir Vassilevsky <  2007-04-13 15:12:19 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-16 09:53:21 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"MooseFET" <  2007-04-13 06:20:49 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
glen herrmannsfeldt <g  2007-04-16 09:59:42 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
Jerry Avins <jya@[EMAI  2007-04-16 13:07:37 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"MooseFET" <  2007-04-13 06:27:07 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"MooseFET" <  2007-04-13 14:08:56 
Re: Unusual Floating-Point Format Remembered?
"MooseFET" <  2007-04-16 18:02:45 

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tan12V112 Fri Aug 29 15:17:59 CDT 2008.